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National League Hockey game
Sorry, hockey fans. The NHL will continue to lock out its players and has canceled games through Dec. 30. That means no hockey for you, because the league's owners are demanding full capitulation from players, who are being told to give up money and contract rights or stay locked out of their jobs. The league and the players have continued to negotiate, though the league's negotiating involves declaring many major issues to be non-negotiable:
The league essentially pulled its most recent offer after the union failed to provide a "yes-or-no" answer on their three non-negotiable items: five-year contract term limits, a 10-year CBA and compliance on the transition rules.

Instead, the union tried countering with a proposal that was quickly rejected by the league. NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr, who portrayed the two sides as close to an agreement earlier Thursday evening, said the union was notified that their offer was "not acceptable" via voicemail message.

Negotiating, such as it is, is expected to resume this week.

Originally posted to Daily Kos Labor on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 11:33 AM PST.

Also republished by The Wide World of Sports and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I'm surprised that the players (15+ / 0-)

    haven't simply threatened to break away and form their own league.

    The lawsuits would go on for years, but the employer power would be broken.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    by twigg on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 11:40:00 AM PST

  •  A Full Metal Jacket Reference (11+ / 0-)
    getting fucked in the ass and not even the common curtesy of a reach around ....
    Just a few years ago after an entire year of lockout the Players Association gave in 24/7 (Google it). Bent over and begged for it to stop.

    Now the owners want more, just a few short years later, as funny as it is after a year lock-up the TV ratings went up!

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 11:45:33 AM PST

  •  May Bettman (17+ / 0-)

    rot in hell.

    Although I would like someone... anyone involved to stop for a moment and say "you know, it really is a crime we charge between $40 and $200 per seat.  Maybe we should trim back a bit on the prices."  Hahahahahaha.  $40 is for the last row in the house in Philadelphia and $200 is for the seat on the glass.  Price aside I much rather be in the last row.  Better seat for seeing the plays unfold.

    Now, if I can only get Mrs Newfie to move to where we can see good Div I college hockey I would be happy.

    "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

    by newfie on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 11:45:46 AM PST

    •  You Could Not Pay Me To Watch A Hockey (4+ / 0-)

      game on TV but in person, and I am a huge sports dude, it is the best thing I've ever seen.

      Stunning!

      This union is beating their players into submission with a sledgehammer. It is terrible.

      But cause I think it is a second teir sport in this nation most folks don't notice. Anybody here that is a football, baseball, basketball fan even notice the hockey season should have started and it did?

      When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

      by webranding on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 11:50:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  We'll start noticing in Feburary... (7+ / 0-)

        After the Superbowl has been played and the local NBA team is in last place.

        'Goodwill' between the GOP and the President is as abundant as unicorn farts - Me'

        by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 12:26:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Depends on where you are (5+ / 0-)

        I know in the Philly area there is a lot of crossover.  And if the Eagles were playing well then I think people would notice less but still notice.  But in the States it is a 2nd tier sport indeed.  

        And I hear you about the in person experience.  It is awesome (although I love it on TV as well).  That is much different than other sports.  Professional football is a snooze in person.  I'd much rather watch on TV (with a DVR is best).  In person, it really strikes you how much time they spend standing around.  Baseball - well the game itself is a snooze but I understand that you go to be at a baseball game not necessarily to go watch a baseball game - it is nearly all about atmosphere.  And pro basketball?  I find that pretty dull as well - it really strikes me as monotonous.  Although the speed of the game is far better than football.  I'd take a college ball game any day over the pros.

        "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

        by newfie on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 12:27:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hockey does not lend itself to good TV (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Larsstephens

        It's so much different in person. It's not surprising that hockey does obtain high TV ratings it just doesn't translate well to television.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 04:05:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  If you know the game, it absolutely does (5+ / 0-)

          but to a casual fan, if you don't know how to read the players on the ice, and you're trying to follow the puck...you're lost.  

          It wasn't until I went to live games, and then actually played, that I became a television fan.

          "Kindly go render the fat in your head in a large kettle of boiling water. Thank you." - Bumblebums -7.38, -6.46

          by balancedscales on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:12:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  To me it does OK on TV (0+ / 0-)

          An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

          by mightymouse on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:29:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  It must be the games you watch (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib

          because hockey to the devoted fans translate very well to TV.  We have one of the best TV guys calling our games, John Forslund, who worked some of the Stanley Cup Playoff games last season for NBC. He doesn't spend all the time talking about everything but what is going on, on the ice, but is actually doing Play-by-Play.

          I have been a full season ticket holder for the Carolina Hurricanes.  I canceled my season tickets in Oct. after 10 years as a protest of the owners insistence on screwing over the players.  Over the years I have gotten to know these guys and they just want to play the game AND get paid the $$ in the contracts they have signed.  

          Having Craig Leopold cry poverty after signing Parise and Suter to those LONG TERM contracts is just ridiculous.  NO OWNER was forced to sign long term deals and now they want to limit the term to 5 years.  Only 20% of the players have deals that are over 5 years, but those are the 'stars' like Crosby, Ovi, Staals (all three of them) Parise, Suter.  You can't field of team of just stars and it takes 23 guys to play the game.  
          Owners are nothing more then billionaires with EGOS to match and have Bettman, the biggest egomaniac of them all representing them.  Don Fehr is no angel, just ask MLB fans, but he is trying to get the players the best deal and get a CBA that will help prevent a replay in 5 years.  

          The owners need to send Bettman packing, but that won't happen, until Jeramey Jacobs meets up with Old Man Wertz at that big arena in wherever.  

          Why do Republicans Hate Americans?

          by Caniac41 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 04:39:38 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Hey, I learned hockey by radio (3+ / 0-)

        listening to "Hockey Night In Canada" from my perch on the lower Columbia in the sixties. Never saw a game (except maybe one during the '64 Winter Olympics) until I was in my twenties. And I even remember giving a report on the sport in my sixth-grade class! (Most of them were probably unaware the sport even existed.)

        If you can't say anything nice about the GOP, please post here more often.

        by Omir the Storyteller on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:15:31 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Get a better TV (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        newfie

        Hockey on TV is awesome. Especially with DVR so I can keep rewinding Toews to Kane GOAL!

        +my beer is cheaper. $7.50 for a light at the United Center. I go to games, but only once a month, and one playoff game a year. The budget don't allow much more.

        2012 presidential election. Never has so few spent so much to have so little effect on a national election. Citizens United and Corporations are not American Values.

        by Blackhawks on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:27:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You have to know the game. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Blackhawks

          I can concede that.  I enjoy it on TV for the same reasons you do. I can watch any game as long as Emrick is not doing plya by play.  I don't understand how anyone likes him.  Better beer for less cost and easy to reach snacks.  No $20 for parking and $80 plus for tickets and dealing with traffic.

          "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

          by newfie on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:01:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I would've noticed (0+ / 0-)

        if my SF Giants weren't in the midst of the post-season. That World Series run kept me from bemoaning the lack of hockey.

        "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

        by Cali Scribe on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 10:48:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  De-Certification is the way to go (6+ / 0-)

    Once there is no official union then there is no collective bargaining - players would be free to file suit against their teams to recover all the pay under their contracts.  There would be no rules when it comes to drafts, free agency, etc.  

  •  It's a difficult issue to resolve (8+ / 0-)

    ...as long as Bettman is still commish.

    The  owners make plenty of money.  The problem is that most of the money is made by a handful of franchises while a roughly equal number of franchises lose money hand-over-fist.  So the reasonable solution is better revenue-sharing between owners, right?

    Well, that's the problem: why should an owner of a "have" team have to give up millions to help out other teams who may have no sustainable fanbase or may have done a terrible job in planning arena locations or signing local deals for an arena or to get sponsors?  An owner of a bad franchise may be content to do a bad job or stay in a normally unsustainable situation knowing teams in Toronto and New York will just fork over money so he can make a profit anyway.  I have trouble faulting owners for balking at having to support such teams.

    So what's the solution?  The real solution is to give up on Bettman's dreams of a huge, national TV deal so that the NHL can get out of those terrible US hockey markets.  A couple of teams should go to Canada (Quebec City and southern Ontario) and 3-4 more should be contracted.  Making the league smaller would have the additional advantage of making it more likely to get into the playoffs which is really what generates fan interest.

    But this can't happen with Bettman because of his ego, so he needs to be dumped.  But ironically both owners and players may oppose it because owners may have to fork out over a billion dollars to buy out these teams to fold them, and players would lose a lot of jobs if there were fewer teams.

    So we're back at square one: too many bad teams, owners not willing to share that much revenue, and so they want the players to make the concessions instead.  Even after they finally make a deal this will just continue to be a problem going forward, and in 5-7 years we could be back in the exact same situation.

    •  I Blame the Vancouver Canucks (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Momagainstthedraft, Caniac41

      They overpaid crybaby Roberto Luongo.

      2012 presidential election. Never has so few spent so much to have so little effect on a national election. Citizens United and Corporations are not American Values.

      by Blackhawks on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:34:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I disagree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NeverThere

      They need to get PHX out of PHX because that deal will never close as long as Goldwater Institute controls the situation.  

      Atlanta needs to NEVER get a team again, 2 time losers.

      The 'Canes do fine as long as we have a winning product on the ice, and with signing Jordan Staal and Alex 'Sasha' Semin in the off season, we can get back to the playoffs.   Hockey fans are migrating south and west and want to have their game too.  A lot of the original STH of the Carolina Hurricanes might have been from other parts of the country, but there are just as many locals buying season tickets as there are transplants.

      Why do Republicans Hate Americans?

      by Caniac41 on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 04:44:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The 5 year contract limit (6+ / 0-)

    Do owners really think players want to sign 10 year contracts the way the salary scale climbs yearly. Whose idea was it to offer players the security of these long term contracts? This is just another exercise in the owners begging the players to save them from themselves.

    I'm no philosopher, I am no poet, I'm just trying to help you out - Gomez (from the song Hamoa Beach)

    by jhecht on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 12:55:03 PM PST

  •  There are no NHL hockey games going on? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larsstephens, mmacdDE

    sorry, didn't notice..  Is hockey actually a sport?  It looks like a bunch of guys skating around and beating each other with sticks..

    "This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no foolin' around..."

    by cgvjelly on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 12:56:29 PM PST

    •  it's a beautful sport (14+ / 0-)

      And hockey players are among the most fit athletes out there...and among the nicest.  It's a fast breaking game, and lateral and backward skating is no easy thing.  They are as smart as football players, as fast as basketball players and as good with hand/eye coordination as baseball players. Best live action sport out there.
      Plus they are among the cutest.  And I should know...I am married to one who has 2 olympic and 3 world championship medals in the sport and who now plays for the sheer joy of the game (and to stay in shape).
      Seriously, it's a shame what the owners are doing.  The players gave a lot in the last deal, and are even willing to give more, but Bettman is fighting for his "legacy", and his job, and he has overreached. The sport over expanded, and the owners cut bad contracts...so the players need to bail them out. Bettman has had 4 lockouts on his watch.  Says about all that is needed to say.
       Plus, he and Fehr just hate each other.  Hockey players are among the least greedy of sports athletes, mainly because it's made up of Europeans and Canadians in large measure who are used to more equal income distribution. (LOL, but true).  And, the NHL just may put itself in jeopardy with the AHL, and the CHL and the KHL in Russia nipping at its heels.

      •  kulta - I think as non-players it is easy (4+ / 0-)

        to miss how well you have to skate to play hockey. I always think it's amazing, given the contact, how infrequently they fall down.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 04:21:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  They work hard at it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib

          I've heard of six-year-old Canadian kids out there on the ice in the winter learning how to skate backward.

          Of course it looks easy when you've been doing it literally all your life.

          If you can't say anything nice about the GOP, please post here more often.

          by Omir the Storyteller on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:27:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I picked up skating late in life. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Omir the Storyteller

            And was finally able to get the hang of going backward and feeling good about myself.  Then I began playing... yikes - totally forgot how to skate backwards - okay not totally but that is how I felt.

            "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

            by newfie on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:04:10 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  It's part of Canadian culture (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            VClib, equalityrules, NeverThere

            I grew up in a fairly small city in Canada (~65,000 people), and kids who did not play hockey were a small minority.  I'd guess that at least 60-70% of boys, and 20-30% of girls in my elementary school played organized hockey.  If you haven't started by age 6, you're behind the curve.

            Of course, that ignores the most common form of hockey for a lot of Canadians: pick-up games at the nearest pond, canal or park.  Or, if it wasn't cold enough for ice, ball hockey on the road or school playground. I got a ball hockey stick for Christmas when I was 3. (yes, there are sticks made especially for ball hockey - usually with a plastic blade that you could heat up to put your own custom curve in it, making for some truly welt-inducing wrist shots)

            This is why the NHL (and AHL) are still around 50% Canadian players, and why we feel the pain of the lockout more than our American friends.

            Interestingly, for some insight into public opinion around here,  my local radio station has recently been running their station IDs followed by "Oh, and Bettman? You suck."

      •  I still think that the first (0+ / 0-)

        male pro athlete to come out as gay while still playing will be in the NHL (or maybe high minors like AHL) thanks to the work of the You Can Play Project and tough guys like Sean Avery (usually an asshole, but not when it comes to gay rights) standing up against homophobia.

        "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

        by Cali Scribe on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 11:01:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  A great sport ruined by "businessmen" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Caniac41

        Despite my sister being a school classmate of Wertz's kid (cough, gag!!!) back in the 80s, I never had any interest in hockey growing up.  Then I ended up at a D1 hockey college, where I fell in love with the game.  I started playing at the age of 26, and well over a decade later, I continue to be amazed at the physical stamina, technical skill, intelligence, and grace that it takes to play the sport at a high level.

        Now that I live in DC, the Caps have until now been building a huge groundswell of local interest in the game.  Kids hockey programs are increasingly difficult to get into because there are many more interested kids than available slots.  My own daughter started playing at the age of 5, and she loves the game for making her faster, stronger, and more confident.  What she wants more than anything right now - what all the kids in her hockey program want more than anything right now - is to see a game in person.  

        This is the future of the sport right here.  These are the people who can make these teams financially viable in the future - or not, if the league continues to ignore their fans and developing fans.  There is massive growth potential for hockey in the U.S. and around the world (the NHL is increasingly attracting top talent and media attention from other parts of the world).  But not if they keep setting themselves back at square one every time the CBA comes up for renewal.

    •  What a truly ignorant comment. (7+ / 0-)

      Why would you even post in this diary, if not to simply troll?  

      There are a lot of us that love many things, be it politics, or sports.  

      You've obviously never put skates on made any effort to understand the game.  The grace, skill, power, and intellect that it takes to play the game well is amazing.  

      I'm from Texas and only found hockey when the Stars got here in the early 90's.  After a lifetime of being active and playing sports of all types, hockey is the one sport that truly speaks to me.  It has made me understand the real value of team sports, and turned a serious loner in to a person that is not only able to, but someone that actually appreciates being part of a collective.  

      Shut your mouth and read a little bit, learn something.  It'll do you some good.

      "Kindly go render the fat in your head in a large kettle of boiling water. Thank you." - Bumblebums -7.38, -6.46

      by balancedscales on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 02:13:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  ice hockey is really a team sport (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mindara, newfie, Cali Scribe, Caniac41

        football is too, but it's so scripted. Hockey has more potential for unscripted creativity - also randomness.

        Basketball can be a team sport as well. But it's more about superstars. One hockey star can get lost on a lousy team.

        An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

        by mightymouse on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:33:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Football. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mightymouse

          I find it so painful to watch pro football live.  Take me to a highschool game or college game but I'll pass on the pros - give me a big screen and a DVR.

          And you hit on my issue with Pro basketball. It's more about superstars and loses me.

          "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

          by newfie on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:07:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  "I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mightymouse, mmacdDE

      That's one way of looking at it. There are many others.

      It's like many sports. For me NASCAR is this way. I can understand the ideas, the tactics, the fact that a certain amount of timing and athleticism (e.g. reflexes) is involved, but even so, it just looks like a bunch of guys driving around in a circle.

      If you can't say anything nice about the GOP, please post here more often.

      by Omir the Storyteller on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:26:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  hockey not missing it (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, bontemps2012, Larsstephens

    They better watch it because the sport will be damaged for years because of a few rich owners.

  •  You should really post a headline at the top of (12+ / 0-)

    the diary detailing the fact that this is about labor rights.  I like your diaries a lot, but it seems like every time you write one about this it becomes filled with people expressing their dislike of hockey, their feelings about the banality of sports in general, or the "meh" feeling they get when they hear millionaires arguing with billionaires over money.

    Labor is labor, no matter what the salary.  To someone working in a unionized grocery store, my paycheck may be too big for them to consider me within my rights to complain.  It doesn't matter whether or not they're making more money than someone reading this.  What matters is that their labor rights are being exploited by the owners, and if it can happen in this situation, it will continue to happen everywhere.

    Stand up for labor rights everywhere.

    rant over.  

    thank you again for these diaries.

    "Kindly go render the fat in your head in a large kettle of boiling water. Thank you." - Bumblebums -7.38, -6.46

    by balancedscales on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 02:19:09 PM PST

  •  Well, the NHL Owners had better watch it (7+ / 0-)

    I've been a dedicated follower of NHL hockey for about 35 years, and frankly, I'm not missing it as much as some might think.  I understand the players position, and I know if I (and others) give up on the sport it hurts them more than the owners...

    But this is stupid.  8 years after an entire season is torched we're at square one.  Ultimately the money originates from the fans, and this is really disrespectful of the fans.

    So, we have a sport that is at best the 4th sport in the public's mind (at least south of the 49th), struggling to get TV exposure, and they are set to lose a full season for the 2nd time in a decade.  Not smart business.  Because it's the core fans like me who keep it alive in the USA, and if we're getting to the "I've had enough of this noise" stage there might be a serious loss of interest.

    •  What will make hockey is 3D HDTV. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens

      It just doesn't work as a 2D normal-screen presentation.

      You had to make guesses about what was happening and none of the stick work came through.

      HDTV is better. Except that there's still the problem for viewers that you can't see the stick work because it's a bitch anticipating what's happening because you really can't see the stick work.

      Go to 3D HDTV and all this changes.

      It's not as exciting as the very, very best of polo. A once-a-month highlights show of top 10 polo moves in 3D HDTV will have a half-dozen piece of action that do not seem to be humanly or animally possible.

      Hockey is going to be a close second.

      And the normal action in hockey gets to 3D exciting action about once a minute. Highlights with 3D HDTV are going to be a knockout!

      •  Polo? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bontemps2012

        Just wait until they perfect divot-vision for the halftime festivities.

        Until then, polo really won't take off as a televised sport.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:24:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I remember watching a chukker of polo once (0+ / 0-)

          Not impressed, even though some royal was participating (Prince Philip, I think). I might have been more impressed if I cared about horse riding. Or rich guys whacking balls with overgrown croquet mallets. Or if I had been a lot more than seven years old, give or take.

          But as it was I'd have much rather been watching Warner Brothers cartoons.

          If you can't say anything nice about the GOP, please post here more often.

          by Omir the Storyteller on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:47:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Were you watching live or on television. (2+ / 0-)

            When I was younger, I used to take dates to polo matches.
            Very nice, and makes a good impression.

            Besides -- those polo ponies really do look --- and sound -- impressive as they race about the field.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:22:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  This was on TV (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bontemps2012

              and I seem to remember it being B&W TV, which would place it in the early 60s.

              I'm sure it's quite impressive in person, watching the ponies thundering around even if you don't know anything about the game.

              If you can't say anything nice about the GOP, please post here more often.

              by Omir the Storyteller on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:54:47 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  You have to play polo (0+ / 0-)

            to appreciate it. It's not a spectator sport.

            But the highlights reel is something else. Take the hottest action from the best matches worldwide over a month and you get one helluva collection. Take the very best of horse racing, rodeo, golf, and tennis.

            Polo is for kids who are raised on horses.

            Most parts of the world that's not the rich people, who live in cities. The main thing that limits the sport is the injuries -- everybody gets hurt.

  •  No hockey? (5+ / 0-)

    So I must be imagining the NCAA, AHL, KHL, USHL, etc, etc...

    Most of those don't get much TV exposure though, so it is much harder to kick back and catch a game on a weeknight.

    Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

    by EthrDemon on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 02:46:31 PM PST

    •  Bingo. (0+ / 0-)

      Get this on TV and it might help.  I can occasionally watch some college but it is hit or miss.  Of course, Ed Snyder's control over comcast might have something to do with it.

      "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

      by newfie on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:13:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  NHL Network (0+ / 0-)

      has been carrying a lot of AHL games, also college hockey (they always carry the Frozen Four championship tournament). We've got a new ECHL franchise, the San Francisco Bulls, and the Comcast Hometown Channel has been carrying some of their games when it's technically feasible. (They're actually going to play a game in San Jose at the HP Pavilion that normally hosts the San Jose Sharks, and tickets/parking will be free; we're going to try and score a pair of tickets on Wednesday morning when they become available on TicketMaster.)

      "If we ever needed to vote we sure do need to vote now" -- Rev. William Barber, NAACP

      by Cali Scribe on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 11:05:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

        I've got an AHL team where I'm at, plus Fox Sports and Big Ten Network will carry some Michigan/Minnesota/Wisconsin/Ohio State games.

        Those who support banning cocaine are no better than those who support banning cheeseburgers

        by EthrDemon on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 08:21:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The owners can go to hell (4+ / 0-)

    (R's) take those tired memes and shove 'em, Denise Velez Oliver, 11/7/2012.

    by a2nite on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 04:01:08 PM PST

  •  the owners were the unconditional winners in the (11+ / 0-)

    ... PREVIOUS lockout in 2005, they literally dictated the entire deal down to the last letter, the players were WILLING TO CONTINUE PLAYING under the previous deal, and the OWNERS precipitated the lockout.

    So the policy of the owners is,

    1) Give us everything we want or we will shut the sport down.

    2) After we get everything we want, give us MORE of everything we want or we will shut the sport down AGAIN.

    The fact that ANYBODY anywhere in the media ever dares say or write anything in favor of the owners or tries to sell the false equivalence bullshit, "both sides are to blame" only goes to show how far in the bag the MSM is for the One Percent and how many media meatheads (especially in sports) are on the take to the billioniares.

    Some media morons continue to refer to the labor dispute as a "strike."

    It is not a "strike," it is a "LOCKOUT" and it is 100.000000 percent the doing of the owners.

    •  Just Like Rich Bosses, Eh? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens, Blackhawks

      "We're spoiled filthy rich brats (especially in Boston), so deal with it, hockey fans. Tell the damn players to give us everything they gave up in 2005, then double it, and we'll negotiate from there. Otherwise, no hockey. Now who do you hate? The greedy overpaid players, right? And hey, we're losing money owning these teams you know. Um, no you can't see our books. Now go buy some NHL gear."

      We will never have the elite, smart people on our side. - Rick Santorum

      by easong on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:11:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fuck Gary Bettman and the owners (8+ / 0-)

    may they rot in hell for what they've done to hockey.  

    Go Portland Winterhawks!!!  And fuck you Ron Robinson!!!!

    Hockey is our religion in this house.  I probably won't be returning to the NHL.  They treat us like mere ATMs anways.  

    I'll probably just remain local and support my Hawks.  This year I got season tickets :)  

    "Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

    by Damnit Janet on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:08:09 PM PST

  •  Bet this is over Health Care.... (0+ / 0-)

    GET EMPLOYERS OUT OF OUR HEALTH CARE!!!!

    Employers should have nothing to do with whether, when, who or how we get health care.

    Instead of it being a benefit and part of our wage compensation, make it a payroll tax or income tax.

    End job lock and give our Labor force the freedom to move from job to job, cut hours, take a leave or retire early!!

    Let Single Payer try on the glass slipper too!

    by seastar on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:15:31 PM PST

  •  Interesting. Over in another diary those (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wisewood

    making 250k or more are being torn apart as rich bastards and the minimum NHL salary is 525k  and the players are being held up as poor victims of greedy owners.  Maybe the owners are, but my head is about to explode reconciling this cognitive dissonance.

    Romney is George W. Bush without brains.

    by thestructureguy on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:18:22 PM PST

  •  Jesus' Officials' (0+ / 0-)

    ..have no idea of the "power-play" of pucking apostrophes.

    Christ is a football fan. There was no ice in Nazareth.

    Plenty of pig-skins. It was a great game. "Can't touch this."

    Fill in the MC Hammer bit and get back with me.

    The dire straits facing America are not due poor people having too much money

    by Anthony Page aka SecondComing on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:19:44 PM PST

  •  AHEM.....No NHL Hockey..and only NHL... (5+ / 0-)

    Every minor league is having a season, and Junior Hockey is as vibrant as ever.
    Give your local team a whirl, F the NHL owners...

    WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

    by IARXPHD on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:22:12 PM PST

  •  Well, I'm related to an owner.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larsstephens, Cali Scribe

    And for what it's worth he's not very happy about any of it.  He got into it purely for the hockey, not this crap.  So, some (quite a few actually) of the owners are not thrilled at all about the lockout.

    Like I said....for what it's worth.  Don't flame the messenger.

    "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George Eliot

    by paulitics on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:24:06 PM PST

  •  With Ari Fliescher (3+ / 0-)

    As their negotiating and PR consultant, it's a wonder the owners haven't invaded Venezuela by now.  

    ‎"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." --Frederick Douglass

    by Nada Lemming on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:30:16 PM PST

  •  I miss stick and puck (0+ / 0-)

    a lot. I am supposed to have basketball and hockey sprinkled into my holiday season along with the requisite football. I am about to break down and go see my local minor leagues. That is where I discovered it so long ago when it was the Dallas Blackhawks in an outlying outpost. I have good hockey I can go see, but I want it on my idiot box where I can eat nachos and drink beer on my own couch. Sigh. I don't think we are going to see the NHL this year.

    Putting on the spectacles of science in expectation of finding an answer to everything looked at signifies inner blindness. -- J(ames) Frank Dobie

    by cactusflinthead on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 08:56:00 PM PST

  •  Good (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wisewood

    I hope this idiotic and self-destructive league folds. Start a new league with fewer teams and concentrated in the areas that traditionally supported hockey: Northeast, Midwest, Canada.

    This head movie makes my eyes rain.

    by The Lone Apple on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:18:45 PM PST

  •  Not a lot of sympathy, here. (0+ / 0-)

    The NHL lockout is, essentially, millionaires arguing with other millionaires (and billionaires) over money.  

    There are just less than 1000 players in the league, total, and the average (median) salary in the NHL, last year, was $2.45 million dollars (!).  Looking at some of the team payrolls is mind-boggling, especially considering the number of folks scraping to get by -- or, who have no job at all.

    I love hockey, and I've loved to play since I was old enough to skate.  But I've long since fallen out of love with the NHL -- especially when the league seemed to become less about hockey, and more about money.  

    I tend to follow the WHL in my neck of the woods.  It's good hockey.... and, the tickets are much cheaper.

    There be no shelter, here. The front line is everywhere.

    by Wisewood on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 09:32:44 PM PST

    •  Yeah yeah yeah. Do you think fans pay $$$$$... (5+ / 0-)

      ... to want owners own, or to watch players play?

      The players, believe it or not, have tremendously rare physical talent -- the ability to play hockey at a world-class level -- that millions of people will pay money to watch?

      What is the tremendously rare talent of the owners?

      Usually, it's winning the sperm derby.

      Oh yeah, it's also the ability to fuck taxpayers out of hundreds of millions of dollars to build them free arenas.

      •  I don't think I implied... (0+ / 0-)

        ... that NHL players aren't talented.  I just pointed to the absurdity of their pay at that world-class level, considering all the other issues we've got going on.

        Besides, have you tried attending an NHL game, lately?  In my market, at least, a lot of middle-class folks - and families - are effectively priced out of the seats.

        There be no shelter, here. The front line is everywhere.

        by Wisewood on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:25:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Now, now (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SunsetMagnolia, Wisewood, Hastur

      This has been pointed out elsewhere upthread, but it bears repeating:  It doesn't matter what the size of the kitty is, labor exploitation is still labor exploitation.  Sure, the NHL players are no proletarians--- when you make 3 million a year, it's great.. but if you should be making 6, you're still getting ripped off.  And for what?

      Now, if you can't muster any sympathy for the players, you should muster some for other employees. Because, if employers can treat this kind of employee like this with no consequences--- employees with guaranteed contracts, public adoration, and agents representing them--- imagine how they can treat the rest of us.  

      Conservatives need to realize that their Silent Moral Majority is neither silent, nor moral, nor a majority.

      by nominalize on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 05:01:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Don't need to imagine. (0+ / 0-)

        I can still remember the last time I paid $8 for a beer while at an NHL hockey game.  (That was a while ago -- apparently, it's $10 now)  :P  LOL

        There be no shelter, here. The front line is everywhere.

        by Wisewood on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:30:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Pull back the curtain (0+ / 0-)

    Here's a fascinating article on Proskauer Rose, the law firm behind the lockout frenzy in big-league sports.  

    http://www.thenation.com/...

    "The terrorists never stop thinking of ways to harm our country, and neither do we." - George W. Bush, 8/5/04

    by IrishAlum on Mon Dec 10, 2012 at 10:13:06 PM PST

  •  S. Palin will be crushed by this news...hopefully. (0+ / 0-)

    (this has been my comment on FaceBook since 2009): Political Views - Democratic Party - OBAMA & NETROOTS NATION - Yes We Did. YES WE CAN. Yes We Will... again. *** OBAMA 2012 ***

    by VT ConQuest on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 12:15:03 AM PST

  •  What is this 'hock-key' you speak of...? (0+ / 0-)

    The owners are cutting their own throats. For some reason they thin the NHL is as big as the NFL and it's not even close. They're not going to play this year.

    And you're hearing it here first - you're going to see this league contract by as many as 6 or even 8 teams.

  •  I'd like to see the NHL be more (0+ / 0-)

    Canada-centric.

  •  Winterhawks are doing a fundraiser for my son's (0+ / 0-)

    special needs adult class.

    http://winterhawks.com/...

    February 2nd vs Seattle.  $5 dollars of every ticket sold through that link goes to his class.  

    I love Portland Hockey!

    "Love One Another" ~ George Harrison

    by Damnit Janet on Tue Dec 11, 2012 at 11:41:13 AM PST

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